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Green Room - Week 29 - Day 4

Chris Clavin is a sexual predator.

Or at least he's not denying the allegations against him and he's said that he is seeking therapy.

For those of you (pretty much everyone) reading this - Chris was a member of the band Ghost Mice and the guy who ran Plan-It-X Records, which put out a lot of great music.

It's interesting seeing the responses, especially since, unlike with Ian Graham, the allegations were actually in print where people could read the stories the women were telling about him. 6 as of this writing, but that number could continue to climb as more folks feel comfortable coming forward.

I mentioned recently about how Joss Whedon's only response to the accusations from his ex wife was a statement through a press agent of "I'm not responding" and a vague bit that made you wonder exactly what he was saying *wasn't* true, that caused a lot of people to jump on the "yep, it is, see how he's gaslighting her!" bandwagon.

My thoughts are all over the place - of course starting with "What a scumbag" and I'm hoping that his victims will, eventually, be OK - but also going into those different crevices your mind finds for you...

What does "accountability" actually look like here? Some people have said he should have turned himself over to the police... others have said he should have kept his social media up so that he could "be accountable" to his former fans.

Even the worst of people don't think of themselves as the true monsters... so getting to the point of getting yourself help/therapy for what you realize is a problem is a step in the right direction. But is there really a 12-step program for someone to say "I'm sorry I sexually assaulted you". If there was, would that help the victim at all?

It's also interesting being a cishet white guy in a world that's turned on cishet white guys... and often for good reason. Not saying it's *always* a good reason. But it's often enough that, yeah, I can definitely see it and it makes me uncomfortable to know that's the skin suit I'm wearing.

Other times though, it's more of a "I'm Gary, I've always been Gary". We were talking about high school dances earlier tonight and I was mentioning that I never went to one. Because it wasn't my thing. It's nothing I regret and if I had to do it over again, I would have missed all of them every single time... well, maybe I would have gone to *one*, but that's a different story... I've never particularly liked the team I was born into. Or related to it. The things "people did" just were never something I was all that interested in. I look at guys I've known over the years, and I've always felt the same way about them... but I'll admit, I also let it slide with "that's just how they are"....

But it's still a big part of me. I'm fucked up in my own ways. Some of them have to do with those ideas of masculine culture, but most probably are just my own flawed brain chemistry! ;) (We all have our own versions of that).

I'm also thinking about the time I found out about a sexual predator in Idol - but was asked by the victim to NOT take any action against him. She later said it "wasn't a big deal", that "he was drunk" and that I should forget about it. I haven't. It's been a really long time, and I still see him from time to time, but I've never forgotten it. Maybe that was the only time he's ever done anything like that... maybe it's not.

They were both contestants at the time though - and my hands off policy is how I keep things from getting personal. I let the game play itself out with anything that isn't directly impacting the game itself.
I wonder what I would have done if I didn't set that rule for myself. Would it have been "the right" thing to do, or would it have simply caused additional harm to the victim when everything came out (and this was during a really active Livejournal period, so it would have all come out...)

It's got me thinking about the difference in power between men and women - and the anger that seems closer to the surface the older I get and the more I listen. Not just with gender though - PoC are speaking up more as well, and it's both good *and* a little "WTF" because with all of that anger it's difficult to stand back and go "Yep. I suck." when I've tried my best *not* to be those things... even if I may not have always succeeded... and especially since, yeah, I DO suck. It's not "white guilt" or "straight guilt". It's knowing you started out, in theory, on third, and managed to trip over the corner of the base and fall on your face more often than not.

It's why I've never really considered myself "An Ally" for any cause or group. I'm on Gary's side. I want the other people to do well, but I'd like to do well too! :)

I'm not the victim in any of this. I'm just a guy with a lot of questions tumbling around his head at 11:30 who needs to get to sleep... who is quite positive that he's managed to say some really stupid things in the last few minutes that hopefully people will forgive him for when he realizes "Why did I frame it THAT way???, and a lot more to "unpack" and consider in something more than a stream of conscious ramble that started when I found out that Chris Clavin was a sexual predator...

Oh, and super awkward transition - get your entries in: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/1041472.html

Comments

( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
clauderainsrm
Aug. 25th, 2017 12:17 pm (UTC)
The next morning - yeah, that was all over the place and I'm pretty sure I stepped over what I was saying more than I actually said anything. But I'll let it stand. :)
xo_kizzy_xo
Aug. 25th, 2017 02:25 pm (UTC)
Nothing wrong with thinky thoughts at a late hour. You needed to put them somewhere relatively *safe* (here as opposed to FB). I've been having a lot of them myself lately, too. Maybe it's a by-product of the eclipse?

I've come to the conclusion that I'm not attention whore-y enough, loud enough, controversial enough, or confrontational enough for most social media, and people who fall into one or more of those categories are REALLY beginning to bug me. I think it's partly because I'm being forced to navel gaze because of my foot and realizing my own shortcomings and reluctance to let people know -- especially IRL -- that I exist and I simply need your friendship/support. I just suck asking for it.
clauderainsrm
Aug. 25th, 2017 03:13 pm (UTC)
That's the first time Idol has ever been called "safe". Better do something to shake that impression up! ;)

Seriously though, I'm fully aware that there's nothing less sympathetic than a cishet white guy whining about things!


"I've come to the conclusion that I'm not attention whore-y enough, loud enough, controversial enough, or confrontational enough for most social media,"

That definitely does seem to be the trend. Which makes sense. People put themselves out there to make connections and part of that is getting the attention in the first place. It kind of feeds itself.


"and people who fall into one or more of those categories are REALLY beginning to bug me"

I literally saw someone recently (no one here or who has ever been here) complain that they weren't getting enough responses to posts (I can relate :D ) and then a couple hours later state the kind of responses they *did not* want to EVER see. (basically giving them advice or saying things would be "OK")

People are "complex" and "interesting".

It does make me wonder how much that person is like that in "Real Life" and how that might be impacting the loneliness they talk about... but that's just me.

"I think it's partly because I'm being forced to navel gaze because of my foot"

You could always just stare at your foot...

" and realizing my own shortcomings and reluctance to let people know -- especially IRL -- that I exist and I simply need your friendship/support. I just suck asking for it."

I'm really bad at *giving it* some times. I get caught up in my own problems and experiences. When it was just me - I was better. Now that I have other people directly in my life, I tend to be attending to them and not so much the rest of the world.

But I'm also pretty bad at the "asking for it" part, because it always seems there is someone who needs it a lot more than I do.

Maybe you need to get one of those "loud and controversial figures" to post an appeal on your behalf.


xo_kizzy_xo
Aug. 25th, 2017 03:49 pm (UTC)
I literally saw someone recently (no one here or who has ever been here) complain that they weren't getting enough responses to posts (I can relate :D ) and then a couple hours later state the kind of responses they *did not* want to EVER see. (basically giving them advice or saying things would be "OK")

I've seen a very similar post recently too and now I'm wondering if it was the same person...? Really though, I've been seeing more of those kind of posts lately. I automatically presumed that they tinkered with the algorithm again (I actually said that in response to yet another similar post). I was told to shut up, it was more than that, PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Well, fine, f-you too. Don't ever say I beat around the bush ;)

It does make me wonder how much that person is like that in "Real Life" and how that might be impacting the loneliness they talk about... but that's just me.

Well, no, I think a lot of people probably think the same. You're the only one who'll openly admit it ;)

I'm really bad at *giving it* some times. I get caught up in my own problems and experiences. When it was just me - I was better. Now that I have other people directly in my life, I tend to be attending to them and not so much the rest of the world.

That's a natural evolution. It takes extra effort to attend to them AND to everyone *out there*, and many people just don't have the spoons for it, so to speak.

But I'm also pretty bad at the "asking for it" part, because it always seems there is someone who needs it a lot more than I do.

Yep, that's been me most of my life. It's only in the last few years I've been pulling back -- not because I don't care, but because it's finally dawned on me that I can't help anybody until I pay more attention to myself first. It's very weird not only realizing that, but putting it into action, especially if you're low maintenance like me.


ETA: I'm tired of staring at my foot, btw. I was almost going to post a photo of it at its ugliest but I decided against it for obvious reasons, LOL. It's now scab free. Once the swelling goes down I'm going to have some very interesting scars.









Edited at 2017-08-25 03:51 pm (UTC)
clauderainsrm
Aug. 25th, 2017 05:42 pm (UTC)
I may have scared everyone else off. :O

"I've seen a very similar post recently too and now I'm wondering if it was the same person...? Really though, I've been seeing more of those kind of posts lately."

I'm pretty sure most (if not all) of our "mutuals" are Idol folks, so nope. Must just be something similar. Like you said, it's becoming more common.

"I was told to shut up, it was more than that, PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Well, fine, f-you too. Don't ever say I beat around the bush ;)"

People want to control their content and what they do and do not interact with. Which, I get, mostly. It does go a bit against the idea of opening up to a larger audience if you just want an echo chamber though. But I can also see why they might not want to deal with it.

My bigger problem is those who want to control *what other people* post in their own space. Not "if you are a hateful bigot, I don't want to see you anymore", but more of the "if you DON'T post this, then you don't ACTUALLY care about this issue..."

"Well, no, I think a lot of people probably think the same. You're the only one who'll openly admit it ;)"

Heh. Well, I try to be open.

And diplomatic. Which are often at odds... which is why I don't post much. :)

"nd many people just don't have the spoons for it, so to speak.
"

I understand the spoons analogy. I just don't particularly like it. I'm just glad there wasn't a pile of knives on that table when they needed an example.

"not because I don't care, but because it's finally dawned on me that I can't help anybody until I pay more attention to myself first. It's very weird not only realizing that, but putting it into action, especially if you're low maintenance like me."

All of that. * insert thumbs up icon here*

" Once the swelling goes down I'm going to have some very interesting scars. "

Interesting scars make for interesting stories!
(Anonymous)
Aug. 25th, 2017 10:09 pm (UTC)
Seriously though, I'm fully aware that there's nothing less sympathetic than a cishet white guy whining about things!

Why should that be? Your emotions and your problems are no less valid than anyone else's.
clauderainsrm
Aug. 26th, 2017 12:55 am (UTC)
To me? Absolutely.

To other people? Other people have issues far bigger and dealing with things far more systematic than I do.

It doesn't mean that I don't internalize them with a priority toward *my* stuff, because that's just the subjective manner of basic human nature. But I feel like I should at least acknowledge that.
(Anonymous)
Aug. 26th, 2017 02:12 pm (UTC)
Acknowledging that other people face more serious problems than you is totally reasonable, and the world would be a better place if more people could do it. The suggestion that your problems are beneath the concern of others because you are heterosexual, or white, or male is what I find problematic.
xo_kizzy_xo
Aug. 26th, 2017 01:48 pm (UTC)
You know, I think we both scared off everybody except for Anonymous up there :points:
veronica_rich
Aug. 29th, 2017 06:34 pm (UTC)
As a white woman who lives as I was identified at birth but tending toward asexual, I am often in a similar position. It's taken a long time to hear founded complaints against white people and white women particularly, and not immediately bristle at them or #NotAllWhiteWomen or some such shit. I used to just a few years ago. What I've tried to do since then is read/hear concerns, think about it, and decide "yes, this is valid and even if I don't do it, it exists and I've witnessed it" or "I'm not sure this is valid, but I don't have a say in it because I'm not the affected party, so honestly, how do I know, so I'll just stay quiet."

I think staying quiet is the second-hardest part to learn. You naturally want to defend yourself, but the problem is we think in terms of defense especially on broad complaints like "white people suck." Or maybe in your case, "men suck." It's probably safe to say these people don't mean "all white people or men suck." Instead, I think "do I do this?" And if I do, I think of how I can stop doing it. And then I try to improve.

(I think the hardest part to learn has been knowing I DO harbor offensive thoughts or say stupid shit still, not because I want to but because my brain isn't entirely scrubbed of upbringing and conditioning. I have to remind myself I'm not a bad person and nobody is ordering my death - I just need to keep trying.)
( 10 comments — Leave a comment )

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